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thats a shame jon but i'm sure sweden will be fun ja!

I agree with some of what the article was about.
But we do hear (and im not saying its wrong at all) about you should start on a hardtail and do your time, here was my response to that article, and why I think going for a full susser worked out better for me

"An interesting read.

I agree with some of the points made by the author but alot of it is also opinion. I think it does boil down to where you ride and who with.

I Have only been riding 4 or 5 months, and planned to get a small HT like a 4x bike for my local trails. Somehow I ended up buying a 6 inch travel Kona coiler deluxe 2007, While I still would love to own a HT and shorter travel bike, Im glad I got the bike I did, in the short time ive been riding Ive been fortunate enough to go to uplifts at Forest of Dean and Triscombe and be able to keep up with my mates on their trail full sussers. If i had gone for a hard tail theres simply very little chance I would enjoy those sort of gnarly trails and keep up with my friends, granted it may have made me a better rider in the long run but thats not much use when my friends are riding where they are now. Im pretty chuffed I have hit some pretty decent drops, that I almost certainly wouldnt have If i had had a hardtail.. why? not because the bikes cant handle it, but because I wouldnt have been visiting some of the places I have been If I only had a small hardtail. True skill or not, I believe the ability of riding Ive developed is slightly due to riding similar bikes to what others are riding and learnign from them. But very few of them are on full DH rigs, just 5-7 inch full sussers"

You looked at the Commencal website ?. They are selling lots of the older v2 frames cheap (about half price), http://www.commencal-store.co.uk/PBSCCa ... ID=1697123 got my Commencal v2 Supreme Dh for £500, although I noticed they've gone up a bit now.

Their new range of FR frames is the replacement for the model above, seems a very impressive AM/FR/mini DH frame. > http://www.commencal-store.com/PBSCCata ... ID=1838210

Andy

My point exactaly........ thats the reason why i want to get a susser.
you have worded it for me!!!! thankyou.

MuZzA

Yep but there are key skills that ARE easier to learn on a Ht, naturally the 2 skills that are my weakpoints when it comes to riding, Pumping and jumping.

No surprise theyre my weakpoints that are improving, but taking longer to improve, possibly...due to the lack of time spent on HT.

I've got a commencal meta am2, 150mm travel alround, before that i had a kona dawg 140/130mm travel, before that a kona cindercone 80mm travel . Deffently think riding a hardtail first will inprove you as a rider.

Yes travel does help you to hit bigger trails and their features but its mostly due to the geometry that changes with the frame that has the biggest effect on your riding. Even just changing stem or bars will effect how you feel on a bike and what you feel comforable hitting. I had a ride of a 150mm ghost over Thorndon awhile back, a nice bike but it felt a lot more of a xc bike than a trail riding bike, it just felt like it did not want to play so i found myself being not as conferdent on it.

On my commencal i've hit cwm carn/FOD for DH and Afan/Brechfa for trail riding all on the same weekend with out changing a thing on the bike

Your bike is a serious contender Matt

In all honestly Andy, I might have taken a bit of insperation from your spesh, just see mine as an updated version lol all my purchases for my meta have been to harden it up to take a bit more abuse

Yours is def an evolution of mine a bit stronger a bit more active etc.

i'm working on making mine a bit more mobile at the rear and am getting the bushes and a thrust bearing fitted quite soon

In relation to that article, this is what i posted as a reply:

"I both agree and disagree here. There are some good points raised, but some of them are unrealistic.

I will draw an example from this weekend, My local downhill spot is Aston Hill, and it attracts a lot of visitors of all skill levels. There were many people there this weekend who were clearly new to the sport, yet sporting bikes with 7" and upwards of travel, and also a lot of newbies on cheap-o hardtail bikes. At the start of the day, they were pretty much on a level playing field in terms of skill level, but as the day progressed a larger and larger gap between the group began to form. The guys on the long travel bikes were pushing themselves harder, and trying new things because of the confidence inspiring nature of the bigger bikes. Big bikes= Confidence= Progression.

This was backed up when one of the guys on the cheapo bikes asked if he could have a little go on my bike, and i obliged, now he wasn't exactly steve peat, but he was defiantly faster on the longer travel bike, and he even hit a jump that he had been avoiding all day on the HT bike.

Furthermore, my riding buddy was on a 4x hard-tail that day. Same thing applied with him, He was much, much faster on the bigger bike.

This article may apply to you, in your local riding area Mike, but to the most of us who have the terrain (in my opinion anyway), A bigger bike is better. I find it kind of stupid saying that only the top level pro riders need 8" travel bikes.

I will mention that i come from a BMX background, so i do have a good level of bike handling, which is something that many newbies lack."

Now that has about +12 props, so people clearly agree too.

Mike Levy makes a lot of ASSUMPTIONS on how people ride/what terrain they ride on in that article, and his opinions may relate to HIS local scene, but i firmly believe a full on downhill bike is not needed, but reccomended for a lot of UK terrain. Preaching your beliefs winds me up. People should ride what they WANT to ride. I really lose respect for people that preach their stance like that.

Anyway, thats my little rant over. I have lost a fair deal of respect for Mr Levy after he posted that article.

I will also add this masdsive contradiction that mike makes:

"Before you read this, you should know that all of us here at Pinkbike ride for the very same reason that you do: fun"

Shortly followed by:

"Practicing your 'Sam Hill' around corners with your buddies might be fun as all hell"

Argument over there, surely?

I think I was one who thumbed up that. There was another great post someone put about people owning ferraris but not being able to use them to their potentiial because of speed limits.

I do think a full dh bike is totally overkill for anywhere in essex, its just so damn flat, and we all know trail bikes can handle the same terrain, but if downhill is the only discipline you ride and you spend alot of time at uplifts why not ride something you WANT to ride? I personally dont want to only own one though, id have to have another full purpose bike. Im still debating an orange 224 or patriot as my next bike and keeping what I have or swapping for a lighter hard tail or short travel bike for danbury chicksands etc etc

just to pick up on what you said on hard tails nothing else.
Since i started ive rode a HT and the places ive been are.... danbury, thordon / warley hill / langdon hills / PORC / chicksands... not to mention uk bike skills.. so that gives me the experince to coment. They are no fun at all. I go to my job mon-fri to WORK ,,,, when i get on my bike i want to have FUN. I dont really care if some people say "yeah but it makes you more skillful"..... OH really! does it ?..... ok then i'll swap you my skillful hardtail for your 3k susser!!! YEP !!! Didnt think so. . OK, next time i see you feel free to WORK away getting skillful on my hardtail while i have oooodles of FUN o your susser!!! sounds like a great deal to me.

!!! THIS IS NOT A RANT JUST AN OBSERVATION !!!

MuZzA

Some very different interpretations of the article being raised.

i took from the article that it doesn't apply to all and that you should review your ride based on your personal circumstances.

i don't see the article as being in instruction for everyone to sell their FS bikes and get HT's more just a suggestion that a big FS is not always the best tool for the job, but by the same premise a HT is not the only bike you should ride either.

such a vast sport that there is clearly room for all bikes.

^^ agreed




For you maybe... i

I've been to all those places (except Warley) and others on my HT and enjoy every minute of it, although like the post above my background is BMX and my HT is like a big BMX but with gears which is probably why i like it so much, i spent a long time researching and buying the frame i wanted but riding across fields and through woods generally bores the tears off me but i still do it because i have little choice when out local so i do it for fitness when i can get to terrain that is more fun, its just that - fun

i feel its all down to opinion and expectation and also not all HT are the same - apparently

if your bike sucks for you, it may be fine for someone else - do something about it.