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I've read that its possible to trim the brake hoses without having to bleed them, i nearly gave it a go but realised my metal shears may make an ugly cut through it and i'd be faffing about trying to neaten the end up and it would need bleeding so i gave in and got a shop to do it. the guy in the shop explained that it is easy but you need new 'o'ring and cable end.

He just released it from the lever, cropped it off and pushed it back in place, no bleeding required

Rubbish. There will be air in the system now. They will feel squidgy!

Mine are fine ? and thats not my opinion, when we were at UKBS Tony was trying to workj out what brakes to go too from his squeaky hopes and mine were holding up fine so he had a few pulls of the lever and commented on how good they were ?

Even shimano say you can do it....

http://www.shimano.com/publish/content/global_cycle/en/us/index/tech_support/tech_tips.download.-Par50rparsys-0008-downloadFile.html/02%29%20Brake%20Hose%20Trimming.pdf

I'm confused. I think I'll be going for the bleeding option, I don't see how it can work otherwise! I have a feeling shimano may be up to something clever, as I think I remember rightly that saint brakes don't need syringes to bleed, you just pour the brake fluid in at the top, and it sorts itself out magically. Maybe the same thing happening here?

They might be self bleeding old Toyota hilux and Mitsubishi l200 had this on their fuel lines.

Update:

So, with the tools kindly loaned to me by Greg, I popped the cranks off (which showed just how much the previous axle was)




And swapped the BBs over. I'm still not sure on this 73mm vs 68mm thing. The 456 needs a 68mm bottom bracked according to the specifications. I was assuming this was diameter, so there was no chance a 73mm one one even fit in the hole. But somehow, it did. Not all the way, it's a bit of a bodge, but it certainly works! In the future I'll upgrade it to a hollowtech affair, but for now it's fine!



A bit of tweaking later and the front mech was shifting very nicely across all 3 rings, rear mech seemed fine too, and I was ready to go on the inaugural ride. Covered about 2 miles, got to the first climb, then all hell broke lose! Shifted to the largest rear cog, at which point there was a catastrophic crunching, I came to a dead stop faster than I could unclip, and went over sideways. This is what happened:



It doesn't look too bad, but it's completely stuck around a sticky-outy bit on the casette. On the plus side, it was a very nice place to break down:



On the other hand, I then had to carry my not-so-light new ride all the way home, and the rear wheel can't turn at all



The saga continues. This week's lesson was that you should learn how to set up a rear mech properly, BEFORE TRYING TO RIDE IT.

http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/ZXOO456FSA5 ... dium=email

Man should of waited

Either that or get one of those fugly looking plastic discs that sit between the cassette and spokes. If you gave the chain a good yank it would have probably come out. I've had it happen to me before and managed to pull it out but it did damage the spokes on the way in. Check the spokes for any dangerous gouges that could make them snap.

Well you're still doing better than me. I have got no further sorting wheels or anything else (apart from tyres) for my 456 build, lack of time and cash!
Always set the rear mech limit screws first, then the B screw and then sort out the indexing. I think overshifting has happened to everyone at some point!
Regarding your BB, 68mm is the shell width (the width of the tubing where your frame serial number is), so you should really be using a 68mm shell BB to have the correct amount of thread in the frame, plus some chainsets have very tight clearances between the inner chainring and the BB shell. It's the BB axel widths that vary for tapered, cotterless and Hollowtech I BB's and this is what sets your chainline, but the correct axel width will depend on the chainset you are using!

Unlucky with the over shift!

that bb needs to be changed, that plastic cup will just shatter under impact with that much hanging out.

I did think of that at the time!

The chain has been pushed into part of the cassette so hard that they're practically welded together (you can just about make out the distorted metal shavings in the photo), yanking definitely isn't going to work! I might be able to do something with a large screwdriver and a hammer, but whether the chain/cassette/wheel will survive is another matter. Might try taking the cassette off entirely, see if that's do-able.





This was taken on one of the trial fittings, it's much more in now, with a spacer on the other side. It's not perfect, and may well fail in the future, but as soon as my bank account settles down I'll be looking at replacing it anyway.


Eccles - cheers for clearing that up!


The most annoying thing was I had spent a while following the instructions on how to set up a mech, and all worked absolutely perfectly in my garage. Not so much as a hint of overshift. I thought I'd done a sterling job!