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I went to two shops I knew about near where I work today hoping to be able to try at least one of the lids above
what I find out was that only xc type of helmets are on display.
Will have to take the risk and order without trying
I actually quite like the one empire.really no one stocking them?

Lets see what old friend google thinks

Right... Urge Down-O-Matic ordered size L/XL.

Thanks for the advise everyone.

Good choice on the urge I cannot speak highly enough of mine and I dont think I will ever use a different helmet. If your like me and in between the helmet sizes make sure you take the time try different padding options I ended up mix of small and large padding to get it to fit right. thought i would throw a photo up of mine as well. Google fit can be a bit trikcy as the opening isnt massive but I have no issues with smiths.

Thanks Joepud

Mine will be similar colors. I hope I got the sizing right though as my head is 58 and falls in the min circumference for L/XL
Once i got it will start looking for suitable goggles.