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Still looking at coming out about 4k though and the carbon one (which i would prefer) would be closer the 5!!!

I'd say bearing in mind your tastes in fresh kit you are gonna have to start living with that number!

I reckon so.
Now to work out a fiendish plan to get it past the mrs without her noticing? ....................Hmmm.

You sure you can't knock up what you really want for 4K ??? i can email you a spreadsheet i used for both builds that lists just about every part you can ever need then just hunt the parts down online you want at the best prices and it totals it all up and you can see then where to juggle your options about to get the best deal for your money ? saved myself £800 on the alpine build and the transition has come in complete at £1600 !

DIY is the way forward !

I'm with jon personally but then i really enjoy the build aspect

I do, apart from when simple things mess you around and you have to swear at them a lot, but its character building...apparently

Its all fun, i was busy grinding down the bash guard tabs on my straitline the other day which is really tricky using an angle grinder rather than a bench mounted job and it seems that i haven't got all the tabs 100% level lol

Silly things like the heli-tape making the seat tube too fat for 34.9 parts....

I've always built my bikes but the YT is the only off the shelf bike i've owned, and to be honest i like it.
Jon the frame on its own is £2699 http://www.dalescycles.com/index.php?op ... edium=base

Pretty but expensive

Not wrong. Hard to justify when the whole YT complete was £600 cheaper and top end components than the this frame on its own.